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Comments on: Interest, dividends, capital gains – an all-in-one investment strategy, Part 6 http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/ Investing for beginners Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:51:12 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: moneyrelations http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/comment-page-1/#comment-1429 moneyrelations Fri, 11 Jan 2008 04:37:23 +0000 http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/#comment-1429 <p>Okay, scrap my last response, after some further investigation, I finally figured this out.</p> <p>I finally understand why everyone was asking me if I have to pay a dividend. </p> <p>Here's how I now understand this scenario involving shorting and dividends.</p> <p>Person A owns shares of company X</p> <p>Person B borrows from Person A shares of company X and sells to Person C</p> <p>Company X declares dividends but who does it give it to? Person A or Person C? (2 owners of the same shares.)</p> <p>Let's say the company gives it to Person A. Person B is on the hook to pay the dividend to Person C (in addition to giving back the shares to Person A).</p> <p>Getting back to the Ultrashorts...</p> <p>They have the <i>characteristics</i> of shorting but they are based on derivatives - swaps, futures like Seeking Alpha explained.</p> <p><b>But I never shorted!</b></p> <p>That's what got me so confused. But thanks, for the question, Bob. This makes me aware. Shorting is probably something I'll try in the future as well ;) </p> <p>I knew there was something I wasn't comprehending because I just saw this way too many times. But no, I don't have to pay someone else a dividend :)</p> Okay, scrap my last response, after some further investigation, I finally figured this out.

I finally understand why everyone was asking me if I have to pay a dividend.

Here’s how I now understand this scenario involving shorting and dividends.

Person A owns shares of company X

Person B borrows from Person A shares of company X and sells to Person C

Company X declares dividends but who does it give it to? Person A or Person C? (2 owners of the same shares.)

Let’s say the company gives it to Person A. Person B is on the hook to pay the dividend to Person C (in addition to giving back the shares to Person A).

Getting back to the Ultrashorts…

They have the characteristics of shorting but they are based on derivatives – swaps, futures like Seeking Alpha explained.

But I never shorted!

That’s what got me so confused. But thanks, for the question, Bob. This makes me aware. Shorting is probably something I’ll try in the future as well ;)

I knew there was something I wasn’t comprehending because I just saw this way too many times. But no, I don’t have to pay someone else a dividend :)

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By: moneyrelations http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/comment-page-1/#comment-1426 moneyrelations Fri, 11 Jan 2008 00:02:21 +0000 http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/#comment-1426 Hey Bob, I think it's all in the terminology - perhaps it should be called distribution. If you look on the Proshares website, the distribution is made up of dividends and short term and long term capital gains. According to <a href="http://seekingalpha.com/article/27823-proshares-launches-12-more-leveraged-and-inverse-leveraged-etfs">Seeking Alpha</a>, they accomplish these capital gains with futures and swaps. Truth be told, I'm surprised about the comments I've received so far and also by reading on message boards. Why a dividend charge? Why do people believe they have to pay it back if you short it? The bottom line is that the company declared a dividend, they are obligated to pay the shareholder of record. Am I missing something here? Wouldn't be the first time :) Hey Bob,

I think it’s all in the terminology – perhaps it should be called distribution.

If you look on the Proshares website, the distribution is made up of dividends and short term and long term capital gains. According to Seeking Alpha, they accomplish these capital gains with futures and swaps.

Truth be told, I’m surprised about the comments I’ve received so far and also by reading on message boards. Why a dividend charge? Why do people believe they have to pay it back if you short it?

The bottom line is that the company declared a dividend, they are obligated to pay the shareholder of record.

Am I missing something here? Wouldn’t be the first time :)

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By: Bob McDonald http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/comment-page-1/#comment-1424 Bob McDonald Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:30:35 +0000 http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/#comment-1424 I too have been dabbling with UltraShorts. So far, the financial (SKF) and Real Estate (SRS). But for the life of me, I can't figure out how an UltraShort pays a dividend. If the underlying strategy is a short position, it would be the opposite (i.e. a dividend charge) Any ideas? I too have been dabbling with UltraShorts. So far, the financial (SKF) and Real Estate (SRS). But for the life of me, I can’t figure out how an UltraShort pays a dividend. If the underlying strategy is a short position, it would be the opposite (i.e. a dividend charge) Any ideas?

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By: moneyrelations http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/comment-page-1/#comment-1421 moneyrelations Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:42:51 +0000 http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/#comment-1421 @ Nancy Ahh, no secrets! Investing is just something I'm interested in. Although I know the generalities of politics, I wouldn't be able to talk about the particulars of the U.S. debates! I probably spend 1 hour a day reading the financial headlines and then I zero in on a topic to research later on. I usually write/research on the weekends or have drafts prepared to be word-smithed later - this takes me HOURS as I'm picky. There's no way I can come up with something the night before unless it's a short article. This one in particular didn't take long at all to write, maybe 30 minutes. Just the facts ;) I read a lot of the Economist, Forbes and CNN. I don't watch much TV. I averaged about 2 hours a week with Heroes and Prison Break but they are on hiatus now so I watch even less now. Although I did watch American Gladiator last night :) @ Paul Thanks, Paul. I don't know if it was in the plans as my brother is gloating but it reminds me of the dot com days where everything was going up. In days like these, it seems like it's one bad report after the other and the mood is general pessimism. It was only a matter of time... And it seems as though I could have held on for more, but oh well. Can't complain. @ Nancy

Ahh, no secrets! Investing is just something I’m interested in. Although I know the generalities of politics, I wouldn’t be able to talk about the particulars of the U.S. debates!

I probably spend 1 hour a day reading the financial headlines and then I zero in on a topic to research later on. I usually write/research on the weekends or have drafts prepared to be word-smithed later – this takes me HOURS as I’m picky. There’s no way I can come up with something the night before unless it’s a short article. This one in particular didn’t take long at all to write, maybe 30 minutes. Just the facts ;)

I read a lot of the Economist, Forbes and CNN.

I don’t watch much TV. I averaged about 2 hours a week with Heroes and Prison Break but they are on hiatus now so I watch even less now. Although I did watch American Gladiator last night :)

@ Paul

Thanks, Paul. I don’t know if it was in the plans as my brother is gloating but it reminds me of the dot com days where everything was going up. In days like these, it seems like it’s one bad report after the other and the mood is general pessimism. It was only a matter of time… And it seems as though I could have held on for more, but oh well. Can’t complain.

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By: -Paul http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/comment-page-1/#comment-1416 -Paul Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:07:38 +0000 http://www.moneyrelations.com/2008/01/07/interest-dividends-capital-gains-an-all-in-one-investment-strategy-part-6/#comment-1416 Nice, Ignore the actual $ figure and that is a % winner... well done Nice, Ignore the actual $ figure and that is a % winner… well done

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